Celebrating Success -Breaking hrough my Brick Wall!

DISCOVERING MY “ENGLISH“ ANCESTORS

 “How far back have you got?" is a standard question for family historians, and I am sorry to admit that the search for the early life of  my maternal grandmother Alice English (1883-1945) remained a puzzle over many decades and quickly hit the proverbial brick wall.   Read on my  research tale.

THE BACKGROUND Alice married my grandfather William Danson of Poulton le Fylde, Lancashire in 1907 .  I had her marriage and death certificate with her age, so born around 1884.

1941 at a family wedding my mother's  Danson family - my aunt Edith, aunt Peggy, grandparents William  and Alice. my uncle Harry and my mother Kathleen.  

 Alice died when I was a baby, and my mother and aunt were surprisingly reticent about her early life.  I failed to ask the right questions at the right time, sensed a great reluctance to talk about her and I ended up with vague and conflicting information – was she born in Manchester, Bolton or Liverpool?   - a classic family history mistake!  It did occur to me that she might well have been illegitimate, but then  her father's name of Henry English (painter deceased)   was given on her marriage certificate.  Was this a fabrication for the purposes of respectability? 

Whatever the mystery about Alice's  past, the impression I gained from my Danson relatives was of a loving, loved wife and mother, and a respected member of the Poulton community. She became known locally as an unofficial midwife and her doctor wanted her to train professionally, but this was not possible.

Despite many years of hunting and using a professional researcher, I had been unable to trace a birth certificate for Alice to find out the name of her mother.  Queries on message boards, Facebook pages, and on my family history blog failed to elicit any positive response, and DNA provided no help.

Below  is one of the few photographs of Alice.  As she is wearing a corsage, could this have been taken on her wedding day?  A question I should have asked my mother, but didn't.

WHAT WERE THE FACTS?

• My starting point for research was the marriage certificate - Alice married my grandfather William Danson in April 1907, at St. Chad's Church, Poulton-le-Fylde, Lancashire,   when Alice was 22 i.e. born around  1884. Her father's name was given as Henry, a painter (deceased).
   
•  I was always told Alice and I  shared the same birthday - September 23rd. 
• The family story was that Alice  had moved to Poulton as a nursemaid to the Potts family - prominent Methodists whose photographs featured in books on old Poulton, attending civic functions,  opening  fetes etc.
  
• Alice was confirmed at St. Chad's Church, Poulton in 1904 - I   have the prayer book presented to her on that occasion.
  
  
  
• Early census returns proved no help - I could  not trace her in 1891. In 1901  there was an Alice A. English, born Bolton aged 17, so born c.1884,  a living-in domestic servants at Stockport. This could well be my grandmother, but did  not help with any more information on her family.
  
• I had had to wait patiently for the release of the 1911 census to  find her entry  under her married name of Danson, with  her birthplace given as Bolton. Yet even that did not take me further forward as the GRO  (General Register Office)  and Bolton Registrar had no record of an Alice English with the details I had.  The release of the 1921 census confirmed the Bolton statement.
  
• The 1939 Register compiled to  facilitate  the issue of ID cards and ration cards in the Second  World War confirmed Alice’s birthdate as 23^rd September 1884.  I had hoped for more details on her birthplace but these did not feature.  
   
• Alice  died  5th July 1945 1945,  so I never knew her.   Her age of 60  on the  death certificate again confirmed her year of birth as c. 1884. 

 

FURTHER SEARCHES

 The Improved search facility for BMD and parochial records online  came up with a number of possibilities but none that tied in with my limited information. So more frustration!    I also have had no luck in tracing  a record for her father Henry English with very little to go on.  

I placed many queries on various websites  and message boards without  much success, though Lancashire Genealogy on Facebook gave me some useful pointers;  as did Curious Fox  the village by village contact site for anyone researching UK  family history.  The immediate response was gratifying in number, but not particularly helpful,  apart from one respondent who took on board my query with great enthusiasm and pointed me in certain directions   But these avenues came to nothing.

THE DISCOVERY   

In 2024 I put a query on The Facebook page of FindMyPast Family History Forum  - and SUCCESS when a contributor asked if I had seen the entry for an Alice English born in the Liverpool Board of Guardians Workhouse   in 1883, with the crucial fact her birthday was the same as mine – 23^rd September.  Even better I was given the links to the workhouse records at Liverpool Archives, available on Find My Past.   This surely  was “my” Alice?  So I took out a monthly subscription to FMP to access these records.   The images of the entries were  poor  and I contacted Liverpool Archives who were very helpful with transcriptions.

 Alice’s mother, Alice Ann, a pregnant single woman, aged 30, born Beverley, Yorkshire  was admitted  to the Workhouse from 25 Sun Street, Liverpool on  13^th September 1883 and gave birth to her daughter Alice on September 23^rd,   baptised there into the Church of England the following day.

I obtained Alice’s birth certificate in a digital format from the GRO. It indicated that  her mother could only make her mark. 

 Mother and baby were discharged from the Workhouse 29^th December 1883   but,  unhelpfully, without any comment   indicating where they had been discharged to. 

Young Alice  was re-admitted  on 11^th September 1890 with “May (8 months)”, but discharged the same day with the nearest relative noted as Kent Street.   On 18^th September their mother Alice Ann was readmitted and discharged the next day, with the nearest relative noted as Alma Street. 

There is no indication about the reasons for 7 year old Alice’s readmission but under the section ‘By whose order admitted’ .  it appears to say ”Police Book”   -  a worrying statement.

It was frustrating to see that under the heading “Nearest Relative” , the answer in all the cases was not a person’s  name or a relation  but a street  name.  I have tried to find out a bit more about Sun Street,  Kent Street and Alma Street  and gather they were in the Dockland areanear the Royal Albert Dock.  Can I assume this was a crowded, poor housing area? 

Why had I failed  for so long to find Alice’s birth and the name of her mother?

·  I had always worked on the basis that Alice  was born around 1884, given her age at marriage  and death which occurred before her September birthday of that year.  Though surely in my searches I had  worked on the basis of a wider range for my searches?   

OOnce I had  what I thought was confirmation of her birthplace as Bolton. I used this detail in all my searches and online queries and discounted further suggestions of Manchester and Liverpool – a mistake!    

I II doubt if, in many queries  I had used the fact that  we shared the same birthday  - a fact which proved crucial in finding Alice. 

But lots  of questions remained

• Why did Alice give the Bolton birthplace name on official records?  What was her connection with Bolton?   (Later  research into her mother's life answered this question).
  
  
•  What were the circumstances that brought 7 year old Alice back to the Workhouse in 1890 with a reference to the police? Liverpool Archives were unable to give any help on this point.
   
• Was 8 month old baby May her sister, admitted to the Workhouse with Alice in 1890,  born around January 1890.  A birth record has not yet been traced. 
   
• Alice could not be traced  in the 1891 census, but an Alice Ann English (her mother) born Beverley, Yorkshire  was  traced to Eden’ Orphanage. Higher End, Sharples, Bolton, where she was working as a domestic servant.  So here was the Bolton connection. But with no sign of her daughter  young Alice. 
   

The good news is I found some shared matched with Alice's mother  on my DNA results to confirm I was on the  right tracks beyond the coincidence of our birthdays. The story  of my great grandmother  is  for another  blog post.

So the story of Alice English  and her mother is still ongoing.  But it  was a Special Occasion,  when I  got some answers to my long search for my grandmother.

 

My grandparents William and Alice in 1916 

 

PATIENCE AND PERSEVERANCE PAID OFF!

 

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