New Arrivals in my Family Tree : Sepia Saturday

Sepia Saturday's November theme is "New Arrivals" and I am looking at "new arrivals" in my family tree - this time my newly discovered great grandmother Alice Ann English, her four sisters, Mary, Elizabeth, Isabella and Harriet, and my great great grandparents  Charles English and Mary Harrocks. This is Alice Ann's research story.

My last post here told the  story of my newly discovered grandmother Alice English (below)  who had been my major brick wall for many years until I traced recently her birth and the name of her mother - Alice Ann English.  

              My grandmother Alice English (1883-1945)  in 1916

So who was my great grandmother Alice Ann?

 My starting  Point - Alice Ann  was admitted to Liverpool Board of Guardians Workhouse on 11th   September 1883,  with the information  that she was a single woman  aged 30, pregnant  and born in Beverly,Yorkshire in 1851. She gave birth in the Workhouse to my   grandmother Alice on 23rd September 1883. 

It proved quite easy to trace Alice Ann's life through census returns and BMD records -  the most noticeable feature the fact that she was never traced living with her daughter.   

Alice Ann was the daughter of Charles English, and Mary Harrocks who married in 1851.  But the censuses listed two daughters born before that date, Mary in 1844 and Elizabeth in 1848.  This  prompted me to look for an earlier marriage for Charles.  His first wife was Elizabeth Barker and they married in 1842, but sadly Elizabeth died only six years later, aged just 23, shortly after the birth of their second daughter.

Charles and his second wife had a further three daughters – Alice Ann in September 1851, Isabella Caroline in 1854 and Harriet Elizabeth in 1858.   

In 1861  9 year old year old Alice Ann was living with her family   in the town of Barnard Castle, County Durham, with father Charles a platelayer with a railway company.

Ten years on in 1871 saw the  family at 6 Sutton Bank Railway Cottages, near Hull, Yorkshire.  Alice Ann aged 19 was working as a milliner - an occupation she does not appear to have followed in later life.  

 But the 1870s saw three tragedies in the family.  Alice Ann's mother  Mary died in 1872, her father  Charles three years later in 1875, and her youngest sister Harriet died in 1879  aged only 12.  

By the time of the 1881 census, Alice Ann  now aged 29  had made a major move away from home and was living with her sister Isabella and her husband Thomas Horrocks  at 22 Dickson Street, Liverpool - her occupation a domestic servant.  

Two years later in the 13th September 1883,  Alice Ann of 25 Sun Street,  Liverpool admitted herself to the Liverpool Board of Guardians Workhouse.   On the 23rd September she gave birth to her daughter Alice (my grandmother).  Interestingly on the birth certificate which I obtained from the General Register Office,  (GRO),   Alice Ann could only make her mark in registering the birth.

Mother and baby were discharged from the Workhouse 29th December   1883 but who to and where  to remains a mystery.   

However on 11th September  1890,  the  Workhouse records,  (available on findmypast.co.uk) noted that 7 year old   Alice was readmitted to the workhouse along with an 8 month old baby May English,   and discharged the next day to Kent Street.  But there was a worrying statement that the informant on their  admission was "The Police  Book"  - what did that mean?   Liverpool Archives was unable to help on this point.  Then on the 18th September their mother Alice Ann was readmitted, but discharged the next day to a different address at Alma Sreet. 

So many unanswered questions on this period in Alice Ann's life!  Could I assume that baby May was her second illegitimate child?  Could the baby's name perhaps be Mary   - the name of Alice Ann's mother and eldest sister?    So far I have been unable to trace May's birth. 

I tried to find out more about the streets,  named in the  Workhouse records relating to Alice Ann.     They all seemed  to be in the dockland area of LIverpool,  near to the  Royal Albert Dock. Might there be directories that could help - I must follow this up. 

 By the time of the 1891 census, Alice Ann, had moved away from Liverpool.  She was  aged 39 and still single,  and was working as  General Servant – Domestic  at The Eden Orphanage. Higher End, Sharples, Bolton, Lancashire which provided care and support to Bolton's destitute orphans.  But where were her daughters?   - I have been unable  to trace Alice or May.  in 1891. 

https://www.bolton.org.uk/edenhome.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1901 - Alice Ann was still working at the orphanage, now as a cook.   Her daughter is thought to be the 17 year old Alice English   working as a living in domestic servant in Stockport.

 By 1904 daughter Alice was in Poulton le Fylde, Lancashire.   I was always told she had come to Poulton as a maid to the Potts family who were found to have Bolton connections. 

Three years later,  daughter Alice married my grandfather William Danson  at St. Chad's Church, Poulton.  Did her mother  Alice Ann  and other members of her  English family know about this event? We shall never know.   My mother never  gave any  indication of  any knowledge of her mother's relations.  The witnesses of the wedding were a local married couple, thought to be Danson family friends.

 St. Chad's Church, Poulton-le-Fylde, known for its carpet of crocuses in the Spring  and where Dansons were

baptised, married and buried.
Photograph taken by my uncle - Harry Rawcliffe Danson 

 

By 1911 Alice Ann was living with her eldest sister Mary and brother-in-law Henry Bonner  at 12 Beverley Road, Bolton.

Daughter  Alice for the 1911 census gave her birthplace as Bolton - so did that indicate a link in the town with her mother?   It could also be to erase the fact she was born in at a Workhouse  - often regarded as a stigma.  Bolton  was also cited as her birthplace in the  1921 census,

Alice Ann  died  in October, buried 11^th October in Tonge Cemetery, Bolton aged 65, with her last address  12 Beverley Road,  the home of her sister Mary.   

1916 was also the year her daughter saw her husband conscripted to fight in the First World War.

 William and Alice in 1916

My grandmother Alice with her daughters Edith and my mother Kathleen, young Harry and baby Billy.  A son  George did not survive infancy, and  daughter Peggy was born after the First World War to complete the family.  Did Alice Ann ever know about her grandchildren?

It was gratifying to trace my great grandmother's life and discover the names of my great great grandparents  Charles English and Mary Harrocks, and my great great aunts, Mary, Elizabeth,  isabella and Harriet.  Even better I found that I had DNA matches with three descendants of Isabella; contacted them and they all replied quickly, but could not  give me any  more information on my great grandmother, Alice Ann.  

Family history never comes to an end  - and  so the search continues for the early life of my grandmother Alice  and that of her mother Alice Ann. It is stories like this that make family history so fascinating a hobby!

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Sepia Saturday gives bloggers an opportunity to share
their family history and memories through photographs. 

This post was written in response to Sepia Saturday's prompt of "New Arrivals". 

Click HERE to see posts  from other Sepia Saturday bloggers. 

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Celebrating Success -Breaking hrough my Brick Wall!

DISCOVERING MY “ENGLISH“ ANCESTORS

 “How far back have you got?" is a standard question for family historians, and I am sorry to admit that the search for the early life of  my maternal grandmother Alice English (1883-1945) remained a puzzle over many decades and quickly hit the proverbial brick wall.   Read on my  research tale.

THE BACKGROUND Alice married my grandfather William Danson of Poulton le Fylde, Lancashire in 1907 .  I had her marriage and death certificate with her age, so born around 1884.

 

1941 at a family wedding my mother's  Danson family - my aunt Edith, aunt Peggy, grandparents William  and Alice. my uncle Harry and my mother Kathleen.  

 Alice died when I was a baby, and my mother and aunt were surprisingly reticent about her early life.  I failed to ask the right questions at the right time, sensed a great reluctance to talk about her and I ended up with vague and conflicting information – was she born in Manchester, Bolton or Liverpool?   - a classic family history mistake!  It did occur to me that she might well have been illegitimate, but then  her father's name of Henry English (painter deceased)   was given on her marriage certificate.  Was this a fabrication for the purposes of respectability? 

Whatever the mystery about Alice's  past, the impression I gained from my Danson relatives was of a loving, loved wife and mother, and a respected member of the Poulton community. She became known locally as an unofficial midwife and her doctor wanted her to train professionally, but this was not possible.

Despite many years of hunting and using a professional researcher, I had been unable to trace a birth certificate for Alice to find out the name of her mother.  Queries on message boards, Facebook pages, and on my family history blog failed to elicit any positive response, and DNA provided no help.

Below  is one of the few photographs of Alice.  As she is wearing a corsage, could this have been taken on her wedding day?  A question I should have asked my mother, but didn't.

WHAT WERE THE FACTS?

• My starting point for research was the marriage certificate - Alice married my grandfather William Danson in April 1907, at St. Chad's Church, Poulton-le-Fylde, Lancashire,   when Alice was 22 i.e. born around  1884. Her father's name was given as Henry, a painter (deceased).
   
•  I was always told Alice and I  shared the same birthday - September 23rd. 
• The family story was that Alice  had moved to Poulton as a nursemaid to the Potts family - prominent Methodists whose photographs featured in books on old Poulton, attending civic functions,  opening  fetes etc.
  
• Alice was confirmed at St. Chad's Church, Poulton in 1904 - I   have the prayer book presented to her on that occasion.
  
  
  
• Early census returns proved no help - I could  not trace her in 1891. In 1901  there was an Alice A. English, born Bolton aged 17, so born c.1884,  a living-in domestic servants at Stockport. This could well be my grandmother, but did  not help with any more information on her family.
  
• I had had to wait patiently for the release of the 1911 census to  find her entry  under her married name of Danson, with  her birthplace given as Bolton. Yet even that did not take me further forward as the GRO  (General Register Office)  and Bolton Registrar had no record of an Alice English with the details I had.  The release of the 1921 census confirmed the Bolton statement.
  
• The 1939 Register compiled to  facilitate  the issue of ID cards and ration cards in the Second  World War confirmed Alice’s birthdate as 23^rd September 1884.  I had hoped for more details on her birthplace but these did not feature.  
   
• Alice  died  5th July 1945 1945,  so I never knew her.   Her age of 60  on the  death certificate again confirmed her year of birth as c. 1884. 

 

FURTHER SEARCHES

 The Improved search facility for BMD and parochial records online  came up with a number of possibilities but none that tied in with my limited information. So more frustration!    I also have had no luck in tracing  a record for her father Henry English with very little to go on.  

I placed many queries on various websites  and message boards without  much success, though Lancashire Genealogy on Facebook gave me some useful pointers;  as did Curious Fox  the village by village contact site for anyone researching UK  family history.  The immediate response was gratifying in number, but not particularly helpful,  apart from one respondent who took on board my query with great enthusiasm and pointed me in certain directions   But these avenues came to nothing.

THE DISCOVERY   

In 2024 I put a query on The Facebook page of FindMyPast Family History Forum  - and SUCCESS when a contributor asked if I had seen the entry for an Alice English born in the Liverpool Board of Guardians Workhouse   in 1883, with the crucial fact her birthday was the same as mine – 23^rd September.  Even better I was given the links to the workhouse records at Liverpool Archives, available on Find My Past.   This surely  was “my” Alice?  So I took out a monthly subscription to FMP to access these records.   The images of the entries were  poor  and I contacted Liverpool Archives who were very helpful with transcriptions.

 Alice’s mother, Alice Ann, a pregnant single woman, aged 30, born Beverley, Yorkshire  was admitted  to the Workhouse from 25 Sun Street, Liverpool on  13^th September 1883 and gave birth to her daughter Alice on September 23^rd,   baptised there into the Church of England the following day.

I obtained Alice’s birth certificate in a digital format from the GRO. It indicated that  her mother could only make her mark. 

 Mother and baby were discharged from the Workhouse 29^th December 1883   but,  unhelpfully, without any comment   indicating where they had been discharged to. 

Young Alice  was re-admitted  on 11^th September 1890 with “May (8 months)”, but discharged the same day with the nearest relative noted as Kent Street.   On 18^th September their mother Alice Ann was readmitted and discharged the next day, with the nearest relative noted as Alma Street. 

There is no indication about the reasons for 7 year old Alice’s readmission but under the section ‘By whose order admitted’ .  it appears to say ”Police Book”   -  a worrying statement.

It was frustrating to see that under the heading “Nearest Relative” , the answer in all the cases was not a person’s  name or a relation  but a street  name.  I have tried to find out a bit more about Sun Street,  Kent Street and Alma Street  and gather they were in the Dockland areanear the Royal Albert Dock.  Can I assume this was a crowded, poor housing area? 

Why had I failed  for so long to find Alice’s birth and the name of her mother?

·  I had always worked on the basis that Alice  was born around 1884, given her age at marriage  and death which occurred before her September birthday of that year.  Though surely in my searches I had  worked on the basis of a wider range for my searches?   

OOnce I had  what I thought was confirmation of her birthplace as Bolton. I used this detail in all my searches and online queries and discounted further suggestions of Manchester and Liverpool – a mistake!    

I II doubt if, in many queries  I had used the fact that  we shared the same birthday  - a fact which proved crucial in finding Alice. 

But lots  of questions remained

• Why did Alice give the Bolton birthplace name on official records?  What was her connection with Bolton?   (Later  research into her mother's life answered this question).
  
  
•  What were the circumstances that brought 7 year old Alice back to the Workhouse in 1890 with a reference to the police? Liverpool Archives were unable to give any help on this point.
   
• Was 8 month old baby May her sister, admitted to the Workhouse with Alice in 1890,  born around January 1890.  A birth record has not yet been traced. 
   
• Alice could not be traced  in the 1891 census, but an Alice Ann English (her mother) born Beverley, Yorkshire  was  traced to Eden’ Orphanage. Higher End, Sharples, Bolton, where she was working as a domestic servant.  So here was the Bolton connection. But with no sign of her daughter  young Alice. 
   

The good news is I found some shared matched with Alice's mother  on my DNA results to confirm I was on the  right tracks beyond the coincidence of our birthdays. The story  of my great grandmother  is  for another  blog post.

So the story of Alice English  and her mother is still ongoing.  But it  was a Special Occasion,  when I  got some answers to my long search for my grandmother.

 

My grandparents William and Alice in 1916 

 

PATIENCE AND PERSEVERANCE PAID OFF!

 

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      Sepia Saturday gives bloggers an opportunity to share
their family history and memories through photographs. 

This post was written in response to Sepia Saturday's prompt of "Special Occasions".

Click HERE to see how other Sepia Saturday bloggers are marking SPECIAL OCCASIONS

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Family Celebrations: Sepia Saturday

 

Continuing this month's Sepia Saturday theme of Special Occasions, I take a look at family celebration - each with its own story to tell. 

 

Celebrating in Style  

 

I have no idea of this was a special occasion, perhaps the birth of one of his 11 children?   But here the bearded merry figure is my great grandfather James Danson (1852-1906)  of Poulton le Fylde, Lancashire, sitting happily in the old stocks in the Market Square.  My aunt called him a "bit of a ne'er do well"! This is the only photograph I have of him, which was in the collection of my great aunt Jennie - his only daughter (yes - born after all those sons, two of whom died in infancy).  

Celebrating Their Engagement 

 

 

My husbsnd's  grandparents Matthew Iley White and Alice Armitage of South Shields, Co. Durham.  Matthew's distinctive name came from his grandparents Matthew White  and Isabella IIley and was passed down four generations in different branches of the family.  Alice had a chequered childhood - her father Aaron Armitage, a miner in West Yorkshire,   died when she was just three, his life characterized   by his frequent  court appearances  and time in Wakefield prison.  Alice's mother  married again anotherminer George Hibbert  with the  family moving ot South Shields.  They had four children - Ivy, Alice, Violet and Matthew Iley.  

 

 My husband's parents Ivy White  and John Robert Donaldson  - the fourth member of the family to bear that name.  They married in 1929.

 

Celebrating Success 

 

 

A windy day for my graduation in 1965 with my proud parents.  They had both left school at the age of 14, and I was the first person in both families to go to university, followed by my brother four years later. 

 

       

Daughter Celebrating as Home Owner 

 

 

 

Brother Celebrating Becoming a  a Pilot  - he had a share in a private  plane with a colleague.

 

 

 

 

Celebrating Family Gatherings

 

1941 at a family wedding my mother's  Danson family - my aunt Edith, aunt Peggy, grandparents William  and Alice. my uncle Harry and my mother Kathleen.  

 

Anotehr family wedding 2000 with my father,   my brother and   my niece and my daughter.

 

And Finally: Celebrating  60 years of marriage

 

My parents with the telegram from Queen Elizabeth  to celebrate their 60th wedding anniversary in  1998.  Sadly my mother died shortly afterwards.

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Sepia Saturday gives bloggers an opportunity to share
their family history and memories through photographs.

 

Click HERE to see how other Sepia Saturday bloggers are marking SPECIAL OCCASIONS

 

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Bonnie Babies - Sepia Saturday

The birth of a baby has to be a Special Occasion - this month’s Sepia Saturday theme.   So take a look at these photographs of Bonnie Babies down generations, many sitting up beautifully for the camera - taken  from my own collection and that of my cousIn and great aunt. 

THREE LITTLE GIRLS:   1861 to 1906

 

Ann Elizabeth Shaw (1860-1917) was the great grandmother of my cousin's wife,  She looks so sweet in this photograph taken c.1861. We rarely see a smile in photographs of that time.   Amy was born in Canning Town, Essex to  Henry Shaw and Mary Suzanna  Wingfield.    At the age of 19, she married Edward Henry Coombs whose family ran a grocery business and a jam factory.  They had ten children between 1880 and 1899.  

 

 

Here is a charming picture of  Ellen Florence Coombs nee Hooker with her baby daughter  Hilda Florence.

 

Above Hilda Florence Coombs, in a photograph  dated on the back as 9.9.1908.   The photographer was J J Hilder of 257 Barking Road, Plaistow, Essex.   

Hilda's father Edward Henry Coombs  was one of ten children with five brothers and four sisters.  He married Ellen Florence Hooker, with Hilda the eldest of  three daughters,  and one son who died in infancy. 

Elsie Oldham, born in 1906 was my mother's second cousin.  Her family had a carters and coal merchant's business in Blackpool, Lancashire.     Following her father's death, Elsie took over at the helm with her husband, and  saw the business through the difficult wartime years, combining it with her own hairdressing concern under the name of "Elise".

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I know nothing about this photograph , apart from the message o.n the back “Best Wishes  from Baby Constance”.  It was in a collection of some 50 photographs I inherited from my great aunt Jennie Danson and  featured friends, family of friends with children and men in uniform. Taken I guess in the period 1916-1922.  Jennie fortunately in many cases wrote names on the back of photographs - but not in this case

Another photograph from Jennie's collection - and so typical of the period,  as photos were taken of families separated by war,   Identified on the  back as Lizzie Riley and son and Billy Hopkins.  Two of the sisters of Jennie's mother had married Riley brothers  -  but it was a popular local surname, and I have no further details. 

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     FOUR GENERATIONS  OF MY FAMILY:  1908-2009

MY MOTHER 

One of the oldest photograph in my collection shows, on the left, my aunt Edith and on the right my mother Kathleen - taken late 1908. The sisters were born one year and one week apart,  daughters of William Danson and Alice English of Poulton-le-Fylde, Lancashire.   Aunt Edith played an active role  as my godmother   and the sisters remained close all their lives, often photographed together. 

MYSELF

One of my favourite photographs of my mother that I have featured before on my blog.  This photograph It means a lot of me, as my mother looks so happy and stylish, and I can  only remember Mum with grey hair worn  in a French pleat.  But the picture came as a surprise, as I had  never seen it before,   with no copy in the family album of my childhood.  Just before my marriage in 1971,  my  future husband and I were visiting an old family friend of my parents,   when she brought out this picture and gave it to us.  I was delighted to have it!

 

Following the deaths of both  my parents, I found a number of letters they exchanged in 1944, whilst my father was serving in the RAF as a Code and Cipher Clerk in France. In one letter, Dad asked for a "Photograph of Baby" - and this studio portrait was the result!

The Photographer was W. R. Buckley & Son, Regent Studio, Cocker Street, Blackpool.  

Below a more casual pose on the back door step, 1944. 

MY DAUGHTER

 

 

 

Making a speech?  Taken 1973

GRANDDAUGHTER  

 

Keeping up with the news! (Taken 2009)

 

 

 

Goodbye - and thank you for reading this post! (Taken 2009)

 

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Sepia Saturday gives bloggers an opportunity to share
their family history and memories through photographs

 

Click HERE to see how other Sepia Saturday bloggers

are marking SPECIAL OCCASIONS.