DISCOVERING MY “ENGLISH“ ANCESTORS
“How far back have you got?" is a standard question for family historians, and I am sorry to admit that the search for the early life of my maternal grandmother Alice English (1883-1945) remained a puzzle over many decades and quickly hit the proverbial brick wall. Read on my research tale.
THE BACKGROUND Alice married my grandfather William Danson of Poulton le Fylde, Lancashire in 1907 . I had her marriage and death certificate with her age, so born around 1884.
1941
at a family wedding my mother's Danson family - my aunt Edith, aunt
Peggy, grandparents William and Alice. my uncle Harry and my mother
Kathleen.
Alice died when I was a baby, and my mother and aunt were surprisingly reticent about her early life. I failed to ask the right questions at the right time, sensed a great reluctance to talk about her and I ended up with vague and conflicting information – was she born in Manchester, Bolton or Liverpool? - a classic family history mistake! It did occur to me that she might well have been illegitimate, but then her father's name of Henry English (painter deceased) was given on her marriage certificate. Was this a fabrication for the purposes of respectability?
Whatever the mystery about Alice's past, the impression I gained from my Danson relatives was of a loving, loved wife and mother, and a respected member of the Poulton community. She became known locally as an unofficial midwife and her doctor wanted her to train professionally, but this was not possible.
Despite many years of hunting and using
a professional researcher, I had been unable to trace a birth certificate for
Alice to find out the name of her mother. Queries on message boards,
Facebook pages, and on my family history blog failed to elicit any positive response,
and DNA provided no help.
Below is one of the few photographs of Alice. As she is wearing a corsage, could this have been taken on her wedding day? A question I should have asked my mother, but didn't.
WHAT WERE THE FACTS?
- My starting point for research was the
marriage certificate - Alice married my grandfather William Danson in
April 1907, at St. Chad's Church, Poulton-le-Fylde, Lancashire,
when Alice was 22 i.e. born around 1884. Her father's name was given as
Henry, a painter (deceased).
- I was always told Alice and I shared the same birthday - September 23rd.
- The family story was that Alice had
moved to Poulton as a nursemaid to the Potts family - prominent Methodists
whose photographs featured in books on old Poulton, attending civic
functions, opening fetes etc.
- Alice was confirmed at St. Chad's
Church, Poulton in 1904 - I have the prayer book presented to her on that
occasion.
- Early census returns proved no help - I
could not trace her in 1891. In 1901 there was an Alice A. English,
born Bolton aged 17, so born c.1884, a living-in domestic servants at
Stockport. This could well be my grandmother, but did not help with any more information on her
family.
- I had had to wait patiently for the release
of the 1911 census to find her entry under her married name of
Danson, with her birthplace given as Bolton. Yet even that did not take
me further forward as the GRO (General Register Office) and Bolton
Registrar had no record of an Alice English with the details I had. The release of the 1921 census confirmed
the Bolton statement.
- The 1939 Register compiled to
facilitate the issue of ID cards and
ration cards in the Second World War confirmed Alice’s birthdate as 23rd
September 1884. I had hoped for more
details on her birthplace but these did not feature.
- Alice died 5th July 1945 1945, so I never knew her. Her age of 60 on the death certificate again confirmed her year of birth as c. 1884.
FURTHER SEARCHES
The Improved search facility for BMD and parochial records online came up with a number of possibilities but none that tied in with my limited information. So more frustration! I also have had no luck in tracing a record for her father Henry English with very little to go on.
I placed many queries on various websites and message boards without much success, though Lancashire Genealogy on Facebook gave me some useful pointers; as did Curious Fox the village by village contact site for anyone researching UK family history. The immediate response was gratifying in number, but not particularly helpful, apart from one respondent who took on board my query with great enthusiasm and pointed me in certain directions But these avenues came to nothing.
THE DISCOVERY
In 2024 I put a query on The Facebook page of FindMyPast Family History Forum - and SUCCESS when a contributor asked if I had seen the entry for an Alice English born in the Liverpool Board of Guardians Workhouse in 1883, with the crucial fact her birthday was the same as mine – 23rd September. Even better I was given the links to the workhouse records at Liverpool Archives, available on Find My Past. This surely was “my” Alice? So I took out a monthly subscription to FMP to access these records. The images of the entries were poor and I contacted Liverpool Archives who were very helpful with transcriptions.
Alice’s mother, Alice Ann, a pregnant single woman, aged 30, born Beverley, Yorkshire was admitted
to the Workhouse from 25 Sun Street, Liverpool on 13th September 1883 and gave birth
to her daughter Alice on September 23rd, baptised there into the Church of England the
following day.
I obtained Alice’s birth certificate in a digital format from the GRO. It indicated that her mother could only make her
mark.
Mother and baby were discharged from the Workhouse 29th December 1883 but, unhelpfully, without any comment indicating where they had been discharged to.
Young Alice was re-admitted on 11th September 1890 with “May (8 months)”, but discharged the same day with the nearest relative noted as Kent Street. On 18th September their mother Alice Ann was readmitted and discharged the next day, with the nearest relative noted as Alma Street.
There is no indication about the reasons for 7 year old Alice’s readmission but under the section ‘By whose order admitted’ . it appears to say ”Police Book” - a worrying statement.
It was frustrating to see that under the heading “Nearest Relative” , the answer in all the cases was not a person’s name or a relation but a street name. I have tried to find out a bit more about Sun Street, Kent Street and Alma Street and gather they were in the Dockland areanear the Royal Albert Dock. Can I assume this was a crowded, poor housing area?
Why had I failed for so long to find Alice’s birth and the name of her mother?
· I had always
worked on the basis that Alice was born around 1884, given her age at marriage and death which occurred before her September
birthday of that year. Though surely in
my searches I had worked on the basis of
a wider range for my searches?
OOnce I
had what I thought was confirmation of
her birthplace as Bolton. I used this detail in all my searches and online
queries and discounted further suggestions of Manchester and Liverpool –
a mistake!
I II doubt if, in many queries I had used the fact that we shared the same birthday - a fact which proved crucial in finding Alice.
But lots of questions remained
- Why did
Alice give the Bolton birthplace name on official records? What was her connection with Bolton? (Later research into her mother's life answered this question).
- What were
the circumstances that brought 7 year old Alice back to the Workhouse in 1890 with a
reference to the police? Liverpool Archives
were unable to give any help on this point.
- Was 8 month
old baby May her sister, admitted to the Workhouse with Alice in 1890, born around January 1890. A birth record has not yet been traced.
- Alice could not be traced in the 1891 census, but an Alice Ann English
(her mother) born Beverley, Yorkshire
was traced to Eden’ Orphanage.
Higher End, Sharples, Bolton, where she was working as a domestic servant. So here was the Bolton connection. But with
no sign of her daughter young
Alice.
their family history and memories through photographs.
This post was written in response to Sepia Saturday's prompt of "Special Occasions".
What an exciting find! Congratulations on your discovery after searching for so long.
ReplyDeleteGreat story and post! You and I share the mystery of birthplace and date for our maternal grandmothers. Family lore and secondary sources have always said Sept. 4, 1884, but the location could be one of 4 adjacent counties in western Kentucky. Birth records were not required in our state at that time, so many counties did not bother. To make things worse, a fire in 1890 destroyed most of the U.S. census records. By the 1900 census she was 16 and living in the county where she would marry 2 years later and remain there until the 1940s. Your success gives me hope that someday I will find proof. I have not considered World War II documents such as ration cards. Stay tuned as I renew the search, probably in the coming year. Thanks for stoking my interest in digging deeper.
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad to hear your wall is crumbling for facts about your grandmother! It's always interesting to push around, look at cousins and siblings...aunts and uncles, whatever it takes. You've got good records which substantiate where she was. Congratulations!
ReplyDeletePersistence, patience, & perseverance - the 'holy' trio of ancestor sleuthing. Congratulations! :)
ReplyDeleteIt is so easy to get focused on one of several options and forget to continue searching the rest. I'm glad you were able to find her, and you have so many new clues to work with. And thank you for mentioning Curiousfox, which I had not heard of previously! It looks like a very useful resouce.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations on locating her!
ReplyDeleteWell done! As you began your outline on Alice I had a hunch that the reason for her hidden background might be that she was an orphan or born in a workhouse. I have a photo of a horn player, a bandsman, who played for Queen Victoria's golden jubilee at the Manchester Exposition in 1887. The photo was a gift for a friend and the musician signed and dated it. Like your research on your grandmother it took me a long time to track him down, and the reason was that he grew up in the Coram Foundling Hospital in London.
ReplyDeleteI learned that in Britain's strict class-bound society many unwed women, pregnant, shamed and desperate, were forced to give their infants to such charitable institutions. Surnames, and maybe forenames too, were assigned by the foundling registrar. The Coram foundling hospital dates from the time of George Frederick Handel who was a patron, so its male charges were trained as musicians. When the boys reached 15, the discharge age, many joined a military band. Girls, of course, were given training to become domestic servants. It's startling how many orphans and "abandoned" children once lived on the streets of major cities in olden times. I think there were many people who began their lives under the care of such charitable institutions like this and who later felt compelled to disguise their origins for fear of the stigma it might bring.
From Scotsue - thank you all for your thoughtful comments on my post.
ReplyDelete